He said explaining what had happened, to family in India had been very difficult.
“Savita has a lot of doctors in her family, a lot of medical people, her uncle, her aunt, many people who are in medicine and they are all asking, ’How can this happen in the 21st century, when the medical field is so advanced?’ and ‘Why didn’t they abort her?’”
“So I had to explain the whole thing, about the law there [in Ireland] and how [when] the foetus is live… and they were all just, some people even laughed at me. ‘That’s crazy’ they said.
“And I just had to tell them, that’s the way it is, that unfortunately that’s the country we were in at the time.
“People keep asking me, ’How could they leave the womb open for two days? There is a high risk of infection there’
“A common thing I’m asked: ‘The mother’s life is a bigger life. They knew that they couldn’t save the baby. Why didn’t they look at the bigger life?’"
- Praveen Halappanavar, husband of Savita, from “We heard Ireland was a good place to have a baby” - Irish Times, 14th November 2012
Do you have an answer, Youth Defence? Any of you crazy anti-choicers out there? Anything at all to say over what your medieval insistence on robbing people of bodily autonomy and dignity is causing?
I don’t know how many of you have heard of this case, but on the 28th October an Indian dentist living here died of septicaemia because of our archaic abortion laws and lack of clear legislation.
Our government and anti-choicers love to shout about how it’s such a safe place to give birth, which is bullshit. If something goes wrong, things like this happen.
RIP Savita.(via esmeweatherwax)
I was discussing this issue with a homophobic Christian the other day, and they told me that for guidance on the issue, I should look to the apostle Paul. Their logic essentially boiled down to: “Ignore Jesus because he never said anything that supports my irrational hatred of gay people.”
“I suspect the main reason so many women have abortions is simply because abortion is legal, available, and cheap. People use whatever is at hand to get out of a crisis — and abortion is most certainly at hand. Just check your Yellow Pages. If we can make abortion illegal, unavailable, and expensive (especially via large malpractice judgments against back-alley abortionists), we will see both abortions and unwanted pregnancies drop. This was amply demonstrated by the Minnesota parental-notification law which, while it was in effect, was associated with a significant drop in both teen pregnancy and abortion rates. Abortion is the “solution” for the problem — unwanted pregnancy — it helps create. The best way to help women avoid unwanted pregnancy and the trauma of abortion is to make abortion illegal.”
— Patricia Wesley, M.D., is a practicing psychiatrist and Assistant Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the School of Medicine at Yale University
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA THIS IS THE MOST HILARIOUS ANTI-ABORTION ARGUMENT I’VE SEEN. IT’S JUST A BUNCH OF LITERAL LIES.
It certainly doesn’t stop the desire or need to have them…
No, the best way to kill people who need abortions, along with their “unborn child”, is to make abortion illegal.
What really disturbs me about this is not her opinion, because I expect that from people, but that she has such prestigious credentials.
A Hopefully Rational Catholic’s Suggestions for People Who Disagree with Abortion
I’m Catholic and I’ve recently reflected a lot over my opinions on controversial issues such as this one. I see this sort of thing and I see the responses and I think to myself, ‘Did I really put my religion across like that?’
I don’t think making abortion illegal will reduce pregnancy rates. I know a lot of young people who have had babies and I don’t think abortion even enters their heads at any time. It’s not generally a consideration. There isn’t a major link.
As a Catholic, I do believe that foetuses are alive. If someone asked me tomorrow if I would abort a child, I’d instinctively say no. But if I was actually in a situation where I might have to abort a child, then I’ve no idea what I’d say. So I don’t agree with demonising people who have an abortion. Especially not in a public forum when you’re in a position of responsibility towards vulnerable people.
So as a Catholic who has thought about it from a moral point of view as opposed to a doctrinal one, here are some suggestions. (Number 6 on this list has implications of certain experiences that may require a trigger warning. I’ve only recently encountered the term ‘trigger’ and I apologise that I don’t know much about them; but I would rather say this doubtfully, than not say it when it might be needed.)
1) In my opinion a large problem is the lack of acceptance and availability of contraception. I don’t object to contraception. What is the lesser evil, abortion or simple, life-saving (perhaps literally) contraception? Women aren’t just fields to be sown. Women are all individual, beautiful gardens. Perhaps in one season, the garden will look best with a tree. But at other times it’s best with just flowers and a fountain. But it’s always the gardener who knows best.
2) There is a situation in our society, wherein girls are pressured to look good, impress boys and have sexual partners in order to gain ‘status’. The same society then condemns girls who fulfil this expectation as being ‘sluts’. If contraception is out of the question, then get rid of this situation.
3) Research into genetic diseases
4) Combat the social reasons that make people abort a child, e.g. that they couldn’t support it
5) Hey there. There are a lot of gay couples who can’t have children. There are a lot of straight couples who have unwanted pregnancies. MAKE THE CONNECTION. I believe that a loving environment with a gay couple is better for a child than two parents, who aren’t even partners, who can’t support the child and don’t even want to do so.
6) NOT tell people who’ve had a traumatic experience that they’re fundamentally evil murderers who will go to hell because who is that going to help? NOT THE FOETUS. Accept that it’s more important to help people in a situation of having to abort a child.
7) Not make it illegal when the state isn’t even Catholic. Faith is a choice. That’s why it’s called ‘faith’ and not ‘law’ and I don’t think these should be confused. I’m religious, yes, and I believe that God gave us life to do what we will with it. But a lot of people aren’t religious, or follow a different religion. I don’t think anyone learns from enshrining one religion’s morality in the law of a supposedly culturally diverse society - least of all the people of that religion in particular.
8) Abortion is a choice. If God didn’t want it to be a choice, it wouldn’t be possible to choose. Make people choose not to do it. Not tell them what’s going to happen if they choose a certain thing. Because then it’s not a choice. And it has to be a choice.
9) Accept that the foetus is better off in heaven than being brought up in overpopulated poverty by someone who doesn’t want it (that is not meant to be conceited)
10) Have you ever had to consider aborting a child? If no, don’t judge people.
^ I liked this, but the only two things I have a little issue with is your reference to an embryo/fetus as a child, because it’s not biologically correct and can risk triggering someone who has had an abortion/those who have miscarried by making them remember what it could have been etc. It’s just an unnecessary emotive word :)
Also, loved all your suggestions/points, like seriously. But, even though I agree with number 4, abortion will still always be necessary even if that was achieved because there will always be people who don’t want to stay pregnant/give birth.
It’s really rare, unfortunately, to come across a non bigoted Catholic these days. Especially one who doesn’t uphold misogynistic values/look at everything from a purely doctrinal point of view - you actually use your logic and morality. Very refreshing !
The only things I would disagree with in nutumprovocan's post are parts 1, 5, 8, and 9, and then only in the tone with regards to god etc.
But primarily point 5, “There are a lot of gay couples who can’t have children. There are a lot of straight couples who have unwanted pregnancies. MAKE THE CONNECTION.” for two reasons - firstly, abortion is an antidote to pregnancy, not to raising a child. This is in the same realm as any adoption over than abortion view. It still disregards a beuterused (be-uterus-ed) person’s right to bodily autonomy. “When this is out of you, we’ll give it away” is not the same as “We will get this out of you now.”
Also, I think the line about women being like gardens is a little iffy.